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    • 29yrswithaGApass

      RECENT SITE UPDATES   11/03/2017

                                                   
Railer

Great Lake Grandstand, Aqua Stadium, and Live n Local Stage being removed

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Where did you get the 50% number on passes?

Page 15 of the June 2015 Six Flags Investor's Presentation.

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I really have to disagree here on some points. People don't want to sit through shows that are poorly produced, unentertaining or even non-educating. I have worked at several different Cirque du Soleil shows (traveling performances vs. Vegas based theatre locations) and there never was a problem filling seats starting at $30.00 for the bad seats and most seats going for $75.00+. There have always been and will always be plenty of ignorant/rude people who can't appreciate talent, artistic impressions, or learning about the other animals that we share this earth with. For the past two seasons, Six Flags has seen its attendance decline while increasing per capita spending. They're attendance is now comprised of nearly 50% season pass/memberships. Sorry, there's no way they can be profitable with half their attendance paying about $65.00 to get into all of their parks. We all can say what we want about Disney and their prices, however, they continue to grow attendance and reinvest in their parks and offer a quality experience.

The difference, however, is those shows are their own, sole attractions. No one goes to theme parks for the shows (minus a very select few). They are a secondary component to the main draws. I do agree that SF hasn't done a good job in the quality aspect of their entertainment offerings, though.

 

In this day and age, the best entertainment offerings are interactive experiences, specifically in the licensed dark ride realm. It does alienate some of the older clientele, but that isn't SF's main draw. Dark rides can support almost every age of customer, gets you out of the heat, and provides immersive, interactive experiences. They are the new age "show."

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One thing i disagree with is the demand for shows. Your comparing Cirque shows attendance and having no problems filling seat's, travelling or Theater based to show's in a Park. People that go to Cirque shows want to only see a Cirque show, of course they will fill seat's. Put that same show in a Park, great production value's and all, and you won't get the same amount of Guest's to see it all. And even more so in our park's specific market.

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It depends on the quality of the shows. For example, I love the Indiana Jones show and lights camera action show at Disney. At parks such as the six flags chain or cedar fair chain I ignore any shows. But then again it's comparing two different very kinds of parks.

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Thanks. I was curious about that number today.

 

One thing that that percentage of Passholders will unfourtunately do is make the park keep it's strategy of "nickel & dimeing" us to death like they try to do now. And it will make them want to keep the in-park advertisement's stronger then ever.

Edited by Railer

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I think its up to the 'park" to change that out look. Sure most Tweens dont go to shows but adults and children do. Children enjoy animal shows. Having worked for Busch I dont remember at any point their sea lion show not being packed to the top of the theater. Or seeing in a high Dive show and not seeing it packed as well. At Dutch Wonderland. ANd dont tell Dolly that shows dont count. But the point is wasted really. If shows are so as pointed out of non- interest lets kill the Great Arena as well. Funny thou we all wish the Glow in The Dark Parade was still with us. And the Batman stunt show. And weve all been begging for a show in the Music Hall. So I dont think its the lack of guest interest as much as mangments lack of interest. I did have high hopes after seeing the clean up and restoration act done on Yum Yum and Grannys...And the introduction of Deablio. I so far have not injected any comment of the lake front rework. But heres my 2 cents. Im hopping they do remove the old Ski Show Steadium. ANd give everyone there Spin Coaster although Im a fan of the smaller one. Sounds like less issues. And that the Fort Independance is just up for a rework of some kind. As a local talent stage and Fireworks Viewing area.

Edited by FlumeOp1974

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A good theme park as I have said time and time again is well balanced with rides, shows, and attractions. Six Flags, back in the 70s and 80s, actually had a separate, wholly owned subsidiary (Six Flags, Inc. Show Productions) that was responsible for developing high quality shows for each park every season. David T. Blackburn was President of that company and if you visit SFOT or SFOG you will see his name and commendations for the excellent shows that SFISP produced. Nothing in any of the parks today approaches the quality of the shows produced back then.

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Page 15 of the June 2015 Six Flags Investor's Presentation.

I thought that percentage would be higher

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As I have said before, I love to ride Rollercoasters. So does my kids... but not my wife. Sure she goes on Skull Mountain, Skyscreamer and Houdini but other than that she just sits on a bench and people watch. And that's probably why she has not even used her SP this year yet.

 

So when it's just me and the kids, we have a great time riding coasters from 10:30 till maybe 1 or 2pm then we just go home. Even my kids miss the shows.

 

But now a days it is getting harder to go as a family. I would really like my kids just go and ride the coasters while my wife and I would walk around together, have a nice lunch in a "sit-in restaurant" and watch a few "shows" during the day, then meet up with the kids later on in the afternoon and do more things together as a family... Oh wait... Now we are at the park the entire day (probably spending more $$$) then when we usually do when we leave early (not spending $$$).

 

Understand GADV??? SFA kept us at the park all day not because of the rollercoasters but also because of the shows (and the water park which is in the park itself). And it did not take a lot of shows but they do have some for my wife, myself a 17 year old daughter and a 15 year old son.

 

 

Note... Just noticed in another thread we have a Magic Show coming in Aug!!! Well that's a start.

Edited by robertleax

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One thing that that percentage of Passholders will unfourtunately do is make the park keep it's strategy of "nickel & dimeing" us to death like they try to do now. And it will make them want to keep the in-park advertisement's stronger then ever.

The problem with the in-park advertising, however, is that with lower attendance levels, the fees the parks are able to charge advertisers for the advertising also declines and cost per exposed guest increases, making it far less valuable to the advertisers. In reading the company's investor presentation, it is comical how many times Reid-Anderson contradicts, distorts, and plays investors as complete fools with some of his math and ridiculously vague assertions such as record high guest satisfaction ratings of 8.0 on a 10-point scale including value for the money and safety... What? Slow down and explain what you just said? Or do you even know what you said? Oh, I see, baffle them with BS! Edited by Daved Thomson

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^ As any good CEO does! Do you think everyone is leaving Disney Hollywood Studios being "wowed" by half the attractions being closed and a whopping half dozen rides? Being charged $100+ for a four hour experience when a few years ago you paid less than half as much and got more than twice the attractions is noticeable. But if you listen to him they are running on all cylinders at WDW. Financially yes, but compared to how it use to be no.

 

In any case, in my opinion shows are the weakest link at GA. They need a got shot in the arm.

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This strategy won't work for that long with how many people buy Passes now. I know i have figured out how to do a day in the Park without spending a penny, and haven't spent a penny on almost all of my visit's this season. I can't be alone. We have the green re-fill bottle, and i bring in last year's orange ones for my kids. I'll fill the green one up for free, dump it in one of their cups, and just go get another re-fill and fill my other kids cup. Then after rinsing it out in a water fountain, i'll get my drink. I'll buy some merchandise for my collection, and that's about it. And even that has fallen off this year with the lack of any decent park specific item's.

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I totally understand that Great Adventure has had a good number of issues lately, and Six Flags as a company has a business plan that many of us don't entirely agree with. However, some of these posts are making it sound like the park is on its death bed. Declining attendance? Great Adventure has been just under 3 million for quite a few years now. 2014 may have been a down year, but that was across the industry. Very few select parks have steadily increased attendance year after year, and very few of those are regional parks. Even Cedar Point's 2014 numbers were sub-par.

 

Great Adventure is a completely different place than it was in the 70's and 80's--but so is their clientele. This is true for nearly ALL regional amusement parks. It is not just Six Flags Great Adventure. Even from the 90's--gone are the days of 4 million visitors (at least these days), but not all of this is the fault of Great Adventure. I'm tired of hearing whining about how much "better" the park was back in the day. For you/your family, maybe this is true. But this isn't the style of modern day amusement parks. Over the last few years, actually, Great Adventure has installed more family style attractions/expansions that the majority of Six Flags parks, and regional amusement parks nationwide. This argument has been had before and I don't want to repeat it, but the park absolutely does NOT only cater to teens, thrillseekers, the "rougher crowd," etc. The park has a selection of rides that rival the best of the best, in terms of both thrills and family rides. Yes, they could use some work--some more shows might help, but hey! In comes the magic show next month!

 

My home park is Six Flags America. SFA has a better lineup of shows than Great Adventure. However, Great Adventure has a far superior lineup of family rides, kiddie rides, thrill rides, and, excusing some cracked pavement, a pothole-filled lot and some buildings/rides in need of paint, has a much nicer atmosphere than SFA.

 

My last point... Remember last November when Cedar Point announced the closure of their Good Time Theater that had been standing since almost exactly when Great Adventure opened its doors and nobody batted an eye? For those that don't know, that site, along with the former site of an Antique Car ride, will be the home of their 18th roller coaster--yet another 200+ foot tall, 80mph steel coaster for the thrillseekers. Great Adventure is most likely doing a similar transformation with one of their older venues, and everyone's losing it, saying "This is the last straw for Great Adventure."

No, it isn't. Have some faith in the park we're all here for.

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His assertion that season pass/memberships are a greater source of in-park spending than one-time visits per season is absurd. Certainly if half your attendance is from passes/memberships the total spent in the end may be larger than the one-time visitors, but that is very different than per capita spending.

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I haven't read all of what you guys have said, because some of you are writing books (XD) but when I went to the Sea-Lion show during Fright Fest, last year, there was probably only about 100-150 people there, and the show was absolutely horrible. It's sad to see this stadium go because I've been going to it since I was a baby (I was only born 1997, so that wasn't too long ago, lol) and I did enjoy the Dolphin shows. But at the same time, I'm glad it's leaving, I don't care if GA is partially getting rid of it because of people against animal shows (I'm one of them) or because they're not feeling it's right, I'm just glad they're not forcing the animals to perform tricks anymore. And for all of you guys saying "Nobody likes shows anymore" are you high? Whenever I've gone to Busch Gardens, the shows are always packed, same thing with the indoor shows at Disney (Haven't been there in awhile though, and I also don't really remember going to see any outdoor shows, if they even have those). Didn't Collin's Key fill the entire theater twice? Bring in quality shows, and people will watch them.

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I haven't read all of what you guys have said, because some of you are writing books (XD) but when I went to the Sea-Lion show during Fright Fest, last year, there was probably only about 100-150 people there, and the show was absolutely horrible. It's sad to see this stadium go because I've been going to it since I was a baby (I was only born 1997, so that wasn't too long ago, lol) and I did enjoy the Dolphin shows. But at the same time, I'm glad it's leaving, I don't care if GA is partially getting rid of it because of people against animal shows (I'm one of them) or because they're not feeling it's right, I'm just glad they're not forcing the animals to perform tricks anymore. And for all of you guys saying "Nobody likes shows anymore" are you high? Whenever I've gone to Busch Gardens, the shows are always packed, same thing with the indoor shows at Disney (Haven't been there in awhile though, and I also don't really remember going to see any outdoor shows, if they even have those). Didn't Collin's Key fill the entire theater twice? Bring in quality shows, and people will watch them.

1-The sealion show was 'terriable' because it had to be geared for kids, even if showtimes were after FF started. That is why majority of the crowd thought it was dumb, because it was for children.

2-Animals are not forced to do anything, that is now how training animals works.

 

The main issues with shows is that it is hard to 'prove' revenue in their eyes(even though we see how shows may attract more people). But in their heads if they are spending money on a show, they want that money back and probably more.

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1-The sealion show was 'terriable' because it had to be geared for kids, even if showtimes were after FF started. That is why majority of the crowd thought it was dumb, because it was for children.

2-Animals are not forced to do anything, that is now how training animals works.

 

The main issues with shows is that it is hard to 'prove' revenue in their eyes(even though we see how shows may attract more people). But in their heads if they are spending money on a show, they want that money back and probably more.

I know you're a moderator and all, but I don't think YOU know how training works. Animals do the tricks, or they don't get fed. Have you not done any research on Tillikum's performance with Dawn? Tillikum wouldn't perform the tricks/actions, so Dawn wouldn't give him any fish, he got mad, bit her, and ended up killing her.

 

" If they were to choose they'd never do tricks spontaneously. Why should they? Animals don't want to earn money or receive applause. They have no desire for such appreciation. "

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You're actually comepletly wrong and I am in that field of work. There has been multiple sealion shows where a sealion chose not to do something and rather have swam or baked in the sun, and they did just that. You're entitled to believe I'm blackfish and not support that type of field, but I highly suggest you research how one sided and bias blackfish is if that is the main cause of reasoning.

 

 

edit- i would like to also point out before it gets said- I am not against blackfish because I'm in the field. To be perfectly honest before i was and when i saw it, it made me question things. The movie is made to be very believable.....except it is all lies.

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Given that Six Flags doesn't generally charge a per ride fee for its rides, it isn't any easier to "prove" revenue for rides than it is to prove revenue for shows. The only truly measurable revenue source is one that the park charges a fee to its guests to provide (retail/merchandise, etc. ) separate from revenues generated by admissions.

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I know you're a moderator and all, but I don't think YOU know how training works. Animals do the tricks, or they don't get fed. Have you not done any research on Tillikum's performance with Dawn? Tillikum wouldn't perform the tricks/actions, so Dawn wouldn't give him any fish, he got mad, bit her, and ended up killing her.

 

" If they were to choose they'd never do tricks spontaneously. Why should they? Animals don't want to earn money or receive applause. They have no desire for such appreciation. "

Really? Some animals (Dolphins, dogs, etc.) are highly social and do, in fact, seek to please. Rewarding behavior and punishing behavior are not the same thing.

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Really? Some animals (Dolphins, dogs, etc.) are highly social and do, in fact, seek to please. Rewarding behavior and punishing behavior are not the same thing.

When THEY want to, of course they'll play around. Just like when a 2 year kid likes to run around for a bit, that's great, but if a parent were to say "run to the end of the block and back or else you're not getting dinner" and someone found out, there would be a chance the kid would get taken away.

 

You're actually comepletly wrong and I am in that field of work.

So are the employees saying "Collapsed dorsal fins are genetic" or "Collapsed dorsal fins are completely normal" :)

There has been multiple sealion shows where a sealion chose not to do something and rather have swam or baked in the sun, and they did just that.

And I'm guessing, if this were at Seaworld, they didn't get any Fish during that show.

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First off, as someone who works at SeaWorld I can tell you you are misinformed by animal rights propaganda. SeaWorld's animals are all fed whether they perform or not. They are given additional food and other positive reinforcement when they do the things they are trained to do on command (which are natural behaviors), just like training a dog or any other animal. The animals only do what they want and if they don't want to perform there is no way to force them.

 

As for your ignorant comment on Dawn's death I will just say this, it was a terrible accident. You are not an expert and your information comes from specious sources. No one loved those animals more than she did, and I will not stand for anyone disparaging her work on a website I co-created.

 

Also if you would do some (non-biased) research, you'd know that collapsed dorsal fins happen in the wild as well in approximately 23% of the killer whale population.

 

ANYWAY, back to the topic, the stadium is being demolished. Things change. It is the nature of theme parks and the nature of life. Someday the pendulum may swing the other way again and new shows will become a priority, but for now it is apparent it is not.

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No idea what GA is thinking with respect to ditching its history and tradition, i.e. Tee Pee, Wagon and now what looks to appear the Aqua Stadium. If they choose to tear down the lakefront facilities, then they better have a massive upgrade with respect to attractions. Here's a chance to put in some much-needed flat rides and not another roller coaster. Love roller coasters, but enough is enough. I looked at the 2015 park map and it's just all about roller coasters. I hardly recognized anything.

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No idea what GA is thinking with respect to ditching its history and tradition, i.e. Tee Pee, Wagon and now what looks to appear the Aqua Stadium. If they choose to tear down the lakefront facilities, then they better have a massive upgrade with respect to attractions. Here's a chance to put in some much-needed flat rides and not another roller coaster. Love roller coasters, but enough is enough. I looked at the 2015 park map and it's just all about roller coasters. I hardly recognized anything.

We've removed 3 roller coasters (5 if you count Chiller/RT as 2 coasters a piece) in the last 8 years, replacing them with a wild mouse and used B&M standup. We now have less coasters than the "family park" that is Hershey. I am all for adding flats and shows...but we are definitely due for a brand new coaster.

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