You Know What Really Grinds My Gears?

[The Master 148]

Large grops of people forming human chains to push other people out of their way.

[gafreak 24]

The Simpsons is the Eddie Murphy of TV shows. It used to be so funny, but now it needs to be laid to rest.

if you think the Simpsons are still funny, you must smoke weed before watching it.....as Jhon Hein would say, The Simpsons jumped the shark....

[MarioSonic94 16]

Adventure Time.

 

What's so great about that show? It's just 30 minutes of pointless surreal nonsense piled on top of pointless surreal nonsense.

 

if you think the Simpsons are still funny, you must smoke weed before watching it.....as Jhon Hein would say, The Simpsons jumped the shark....

Justin Beiber will guest star in the new season. It's official: The Simpsons has also nuked the fridge.

[MarioSonic94 16]

Watched the infamous Lady Gaga episode of the Simpsons. That episode as a whole really makes me miss the days when the show had quality guest stars (i.e. The Ramones, Phil Hartman, Albert Brooks).

[RideOfSteel 3]

Morey's rides being closed.

 

I was down for a church retreat and The Great White was taunting me right across from the hotel the whole weekend.

[29yrswithaGApass 1,557]

^ Speaking of Morey's...

 

Morey's owning all the piers in town grinds my gears. I last went to Wildwood the last week of June on a Tuesday. All the piers were closed until late in the afternoon at which time only one of them opened for a about four hours. All the other rides and piers just sat there shuttered and everything closed by 8pm. (By the way, the weather was beautiful so that wasn't the issue).

 

If Morey hadn't bought all the piers and they were still owned and operated by several companies, ever one of them would have been open fighting for business. The lack of competition and the monopoly they have as the only game in town has really limited the amount of excitement in Wildwood.

[Yoshi 278]

The parks in Ocean City do the same thing, they are open at night for most of June but not during the day. Yet they and Morey's are open on days when no one is going to go to the parks like the weekdays after Labor Day right when school starts. It doesn't make sense.

[The Master 148]

Only Playland in OC seems to be open on weekdays in Sep and I am glad they are. Of course they open at night after school is done for the day and it still gets busy.

[The Master 148]

The culture of park guests at GADV. For some reason it seems most people at GADV have this attitude that it is okay to be obnoxious and act like a total A-hole at GADV. You don't really see this attitude at either Dorney, Hershey, or even Morey's but it's always been pretty bad at GADV. Other SF parks don't seem to have this problem either, even SFA though that park suffers from other problems. I don't understand why GADV has this problem let alone what could be done to stop it.

Edited October 13, 2012 by The Master

[batmanrobinchiller 2]

The culture of park guests at GADV. For some reason it seems most people at GADV have this attitude that it is okay to be obnoxious and act like a total A-hole at GADV.

 

It is the Kingda Ka/El Toro/Nitro hype. :/

[Yoshi 278]

I have heard that Dorney's crowds can be really bad on summer weekends, with lots of line cutting, fighting and people just behaving horribly and that the weekday crowds are much more well behaved. I go during the week in the summer and I agree with that for the most part.

 

I think part of the problem at Great Adventure is that the people causing trouble know they can get away with it. I saw someone smoking in line for Nitro and a guard walked right by them when the guard was patrolling the line and didn't say a word to them. 2 separate times at Superman, people cut in line and when they were reported to security, nothing happened to the cutters and both times the people who reported them were threatened by the line cutters after security walked away (which is why I never try to stop line cutters since you don't know how someone will act). The guest code of conduct is a good idea, I just wish it was enforced better.

Edited October 13, 2012 by Yoshi

[The Master 148]

I agree with that Yoshi, alot of people know that security kicking people out of the park is an empty threat, even if it did happen it still would not deter some. That guy who grapped me a couple of weeks ago was let to walk back in line for KK, in front of me!

Edited October 13, 2012 by The Master

[Thunderbolt 6]

I think part of the problem at Great Adventure is that the people causing trouble know they can get away with it. I saw someone smoking in line for Nitro and a guard walked right by them when the guard was patrolling the line and didn't say a word to them. 2 separate times at Superman, people cut in line and when they were reported to security, nothing happened to the cutters and both times the people who reported them were threatened by the line cutters after security walked away (which is why I never try to stop line cutters since you don't know how someone will act). The guest code of conduct is a good idea, I just wish it was enforced better.

This pretty much sums it up. Years of poor rule enforcement created this culture. My assumption, and this is only an assumption, is Great Adventure lacks the security staff to properly enforce it.

[The Master 148]

The other thing to is I think GADV's security are not given as much power as guards in other parks. At Dorney, their guards have handguns, mace, handcuffs, and batons, I don't think any of GA's guards have any weapons. Of course NJ is alot more strict than PA is, so NJ probably restricts what the guards can do.

[29yrswithaGApass 1,557]

I always found Dorney's security team having guns a little scary. I am glad Great Adventure doesn't have them. I don't recall any other park that I have been to having guns.

[Thunderbolt 6]

I agree with Harry. The idea of park security arming themselves with guns, mace, tasers, etc. is not conducive to a family friendly image. It's simply overkill for a situation like this. Six Flags needs to re-assess how they manage crowds, add more in-queue video surveillance, and increase security staff. Basically, they need to hire James Dalton from "Road House". "and be nice!"

 

"The Rope Drop" continues to be one of the dumbest ideas for crowd control I ever seen. Guests should be corralled outside the gates, and allowed entry at the appropriate time. Also, every entry point and ticket booth should be staffed at park opening. When the gates open, guests should be allowed to proceed to attractions unencumbered. Less people inside the park will lessen the need to outrun your neighboring group of guests. Is it really so hard to copy Disney here?

Edited October 13, 2012 by Thunderbolt

[Yoshi 278]

They weren't using Rope Drop last week. They waited until 5:30 to open the gates, and everyone walked to the rides. It was nice not seeing everyone running and no one pushing at the rope but the problem is that the lines to get to the park were past the ticket booths. It wasn't crowded that day but on a busy day it wouldn't work well. Next year at least passholders don't have to deal with rope drop since they can go to the ride entrance of their choice 10 minutes early (unless that plan changes).

Edited October 13, 2012 by Yoshi

[The Master 148]

It seems only the higher ranking guards carry guns which is probably wise, all of their guards are Act 235 state certified. Being armed is one of the best deterrents, the cheap punks are less likely to fight with an armed guard than an unarmed "rent-a-cop". I have seen guards at GADV almost lose control of the crowds at times, never seen it happen at Dorney. While GADV does use metal detectors to try to prevent weapons from entering the park, they are getting out dated. There are ways to defeat them such as nonmetallic weapons. Metal detectors are also not conducive to a family friendly image either, it signals that the park has had past problems. Not every guest will see an armed guard at Dorney but every GADV guest will see the metal detectors. They are also a major hassle, a bottle neck, out dated, and take guards away from patrolling inside the park itself. Nether method is perfect but having guards at all in the first place isn't pretty, but you need function over form with security.

 

I agree that the rope drop is a bad idea as is marching the hordes to the rides.

Edited October 13, 2012 by The Master

[29yrswithaGApass 1,557]

I don't mind the temporary inconvenience of the metal detectors because I do feel they are a good first line of defense. Sadly, those machines have become a part of life today in so many places including schools. Those are much more effective than going through the motions of security at other park's front gates (including Disney).

[The Master 148]

Yes, but sadly there are many weapons that can easily pass though them undetected such as ceramic knifes, lexan knuckles, non-lead slaps, etc and most are not expensive or hard to find.

[29yrswithaGApass 1,557]

True, but let's face it, if someone REALLY wanted to get a weapon into the park there are other ways than just walking it in through the front gate.

[The Master 148]

Sadly that is true as well and the metal detectors are still mostly doctor feel good. While some of you don't think trained and armed guards make for a good family friendly image, hopefully you will agree with me that chastising the park guards and allowing unruly mobs to roam the park at will is just as bad. Not to insult GADV's guards who do the best that they are allowed to, but they have very little of a deterrent effect. Many of them are made to use trash pickers which really makes them look like a non-threat to trouble makers. Back on the Fall Family Fun Night, the mob of people at the ropeless, rope drop kept creeping forward, people kept cutting in front of other people standing their and the guards just stood there and allowed it to continue. They barely could contain the stampede of people heading to KK and fights were breaking out. As I posted early, NJ restricts what crowd control measures GADV can use alot more than PA does with Dorney, so alot of this is beyond the park's control. But some of the management's decisions are making things worse than they should be.

Edited October 13, 2012 by The Master

[Thunderbolt 6]

Most security devices are pure "theater". I think the metal detectors are a good enough deterrent. It's easy enough to smuggle a weapon into the park if one is truly committed. I personally don't think armed guards would really prove beneficial. It would further display Six Flags as a non-family friendly atmosphere, and that is far worse.

 

I still maintain corralling guests outside the main gates is the superior crowd control option. Great Adventure should design a better way to queue guests at the gate, or perhaps redesign the entrance esplanade to better handle waiting guests. In my experience, the way Great Adventure handles the front gate at opening is horrendous. Every lane should be open at entrance to swiftly process guests. I've seen "Islands of Adventure" ("IOA") admit guests far more efficiently on heavy loads. Guests at IOA also go through bag searches, metal detection (via "wanding" when I was there in 2004), and ID Presentation. IIRC, the space between the ticket booths and front gate isn't much bigger than Great Adventure's.

 

Until Great Adventure actually enforces Park Policy with respect to "line cutting" and guest conduct, the culture won't change. One positive initiative undertook by Mark Shapiro was ejecting people for smoking outside designated areas. In my visits during the Red Zone Era, security was fairly proactive in enforcing said policy. The park must be equally vigilant in all policies.

[The Master 148]

Most security devices are pure "theater". I think the metal detectors are a good enough deterrent. It's easy enough to smuggle a weapon into the park if one is truly committed. I personally don't think armed guards would really prove beneficial. It would further display Six Flags as a non-family friendly atmosphere, and that is far worse.

 

I still maintain corralling guests outside the main gates is the superior crowd control option. Great Adventure should design a better way to queue guests at the gate, or perhaps redesign the entrance esplanade to better handle waiting guests. In my experience, the way Great Adventure handles the front gate at opening is horrendous. Every lane should be open at entrance to swiftly process guests. I've seen "Islands of Adventure" ("IOA") admit guests far more efficiently on heavy loads. Guests at IOA also go through bag searches, metal detection (via "wanding" when I was there in 2004), and ID Presentation. IIRC, the space between the ticket booths and front gate isn't much bigger than Great Adventure's.

 

Until Great Adventure actually enforces Park Policy with respect to "line cutting" and guest conduct, the culture won't change. One positive initiative undertook by Mark Shapiro was ejecting people for smoking outside designated areas. In my visits during the Red Zone Era, security was fairly proactive in enforcing said policy. The park must be equally vigilant in all policies.

 

 

This whole armed guard reducing family friendly atmosphere argument is really just an opinion and a paradox. There are many people who feel less safe at GADV because their guards aren't armed, and not feeling safe ruins the family friendly atmosphere for those people. They feel more safe at Dorney since they know Dorney employs a dedicated security staff to keep them safe. This is why that argument is a paradox at best, you can't please everyone. Of course this whole armed guard thing is mute since the state of NJ would never allow GADV to arm their guards since NJ is a pretty anti gun state and so is much more strict than Pennsy.

[Thunderbolt 6]

Let's try an experiment. If an unruly guest and security officer engage physically, and the guest is shot; how will that effect park reputation? How many people would be hurt during the inevitable stampede of fleeing guests? I guarantee the park will be found at fault. Forget the lawsuits, Great Adventure will suffer immeasurably in the court of public opinion (the one that matters most). NOBODY will bring their kids back to the park. Media will DESTROY the place. Imagine how much worse the 1987 Season would have been if there was 4 Cable News Networks and the World Wide Web (2 stabbings, a shooting, and the "Lightnin' Loops" death)? Had Great Adventure lost its food & beverage licenses (and they almost did), Six Flags was prepared to shut it down. That's why "Shockwave" went to Great America.

 

The Orlando Parks suffer the same "riff raff" that plagues Great Adventure. Yet Downtown Disney and Universal Citywalk remain with unarmed security (Don't forget, Florida is a "Stand Your Ground" state). Guns mainly provide a false sense of security (i.e. "The Old West"). Six Flags deserves some of the blame for guest culture. These issues have persisted for decades. Nobody in Corporate has taken the initiative to hire the staff to enforce the code of conduct. Camera systems are cheap, and provide an easy way for the park to prove anything charged. Considering the lack of "1987 repeats", I'd say the metal detectors provide enough weapon deterrents, Now it's time Great Adventure to turn on some lights and stop being passive.

 

I'll make this my last public post on the matter. Feel free to PM me if you'd like to discuss it further.

Edited October 14, 2012 by Thunderbolt